The question is this: if Jesus came to visit your church, would he jump for joy and say, Yes! I mentioned how I recently read of a church where the IT had a deal with pastor to delete specifically his e-mails I laugh and say fat chance I can get him to do that for me! Mahaney books. I am thankful for the hard work Bill Hybels and his family have done. But is that truthful? Who appointed you besides yourself ? Though Lynne had intended to become a social worker, she did not hesitate to commit her life to church ministry, convinced that God has given the local church a clear mandate to address the needs of "the whole person in the whole world." if this was mishandled, was else has been mishandled? (Exod. In light of the testimonies of additional women who suffered his unwanted attentions, the only remaining question is how many women were victimized and how long has this been going on. Is that one of the reasons Student Centers/University Unions include Mall Food Courts and all the amenities of a high-end cruise ship? Bill Hybels opens his eyes at dawn, rolls out of bed and lands on his knees. They think theyve stopped it. They also have two children together, whose name we don't know. She claims Bill Hybels brought up the incident in Hawaii about the ambien. Read Paul on Mars hill. That group togetherness thing costs big time. One was at the Heidelblog about Tom Chantry and one at the Wee Flea about Iain Campbell, and both bloggers were commanding readers not to gossip, slander, or even form an opinion because we dont know anything, and maybe we dont even WANT to know anything. @ Davis and Natasha: Honestly, there is a lot of gossip here and on other social media about all this. I stayed silent, but I now see that Im not alone. (3) A fifteen-minute phone conversation, also on April 6th, with the woman who made the confession, who had previously emailed Leanne three times that if her story went public she would deny it. Among the prominent U.S. and Palestinian church voices who spoke was Lynne Hybels, co-founder with her pastor husband Bill of the Chicago area Willow Creek Church, which itself spawned a . We are most certainly called to make judgements on actions. It would take only one cracker to spill all that confidential information to the world (or one thief of the pastors unencrypted computer). I understand the victim mentality, I have been a victim, but his repentance has little to do with the womens healing. However, there are a couple of things we cannot judge and this is what I believe what Scripture is talking about. What do you think that Rabbi from Tarsus meant when he wrote For Satan himself can transform himself to appear as an Angel of Light? Time will tell whether WC was following Christ or Hybels. I not only strongly agree, I tend to look back at the whole Church movement, and see a change that began with you guessed it Bill Hybels and Willow Creek. If someone thinks so, tell me how. I get it bothers you. Do not judge, and you will not be judged. You are right, the whole situation smells of cover-up. I do. I think I said in another thread, there are hugs and there are hugs and we can generally tell the difference. These things were the normal and the personal assistants was more than happy to go along. Eleven repented and realized their failing at the resurrection. Its hard to tell what I havent read. These are the things that The Church has to wake up to. Bill Hybels stepped down. Hybels retired early from Willow Creek in 2018 after he was accused by several women, who worked for or attended the church, of sexual misconduct stretching back more than 20 years. As I said before, I think people who disbelieve the testimony of victims are the least credible people in these situations. The logical conclusion of B. Brucker position is that ends justifies the means. Well, to show you how prophetic I am, I predicted years ago that most mega churches would be car lots or community centers by now. It was through him that I first heard the Gospel as a nonChristian teen in a nonChristian family in Salem MA. Is it possible that Bill Hybels encouraged the leadership of women in order to increase his own access to women who admired him within the confines of church business, giving him plausible deniability? And what exactly do you think I can do about it at this point? Perhaps its just honest ignorance, perhaps its denial. The Spirit works, sometimes over decades, with friends and acquaintances. In this day and age, no one wants to get their name caught in the tangled web. Read reviews from world's largest community for readers. We know about this link. @ Bridget: Lynne Hybels did not respond to messages seeking comment. To all those women that have been psychologically damaged, what a needless tradegy. 8 comments. Hint hint. . @ Davis and Natasha: Serving whom? My mom was abused sexually. @ dee: Brad, not all of us read or study the scriptures with the same filter. NB If anything uncomfortable happens again I will be saying something clearly to him & asking him to mind his manners. Nor will Christians abandon their faith en masse over this. I was contemplating a megachurch model the other day where teaching pastors had term limits or rotating speakers. My point is not so much whether this is right or wrong, but at the way this thing was done, yet is inaccurately perceived as a random event. But, visa-a-vis Nancys testimony, if things really were so bad and uncomfortable in that hotel room, why the following admittance: On a subsequent conference trip to Hawaii, I went running with Bill and he struck up a conversation about the amnesiac side effects of Ambien. Excuse me? He could have retired during the Big 40th celebration and the women could have been supported and validated. Be the one who is loving and kind in the midst of sorrow, showing us that you trust Jesus to bring something beautiful out of this pain. The statement was wrong in every way and since there is a great possibility that the group is very concerned and just seeking truth. Davids repentance was a magnificent example of repentance. When will people get it that the church is not the same thing as the body of Christ. Because your mind tells you this particular man YOU KNOW would never so you must be misjudging. Its about truth, loving others, the actual fruits of the Spirit, obedience to the Lord. And few of us agree on every point! Thanks for the link and summary, Barbara this sounds like noteworthy research on specific dynamics! Because TWW doesnt have a tick the box to be notified of future comments, and because my comments seem to go live straight away, I have often felt unconfident that the TWW team or people I have replied to in a comments thread at TWW have noticed my comments. Who are the people our Creator said were His people? Certainly not the ones who keep claiming they are always the victims. Is lynne hybels still married to bill The new thing i learned from nancy ortberg's post was that bill has personally. Have you any clue how prideful this sounds? I was deeply wounded and deeply burdened with guilt and self anger. This is VERY common. Not out of God directly pushing the SMITE button, but that Davids actions set chains of events in action that later came around to bite back HARD. I was extremely uncomfortable with Hybels repeatedly reminding the church he was the one leading the charge to empower women. The Church is built on Jesus by the power of the Holy Spirit, not on them. There is more to this story. What BH did is reprehensible. Its the attempt by pastors to do life together and facilitate relationship-building which will then hopefully anchor the visitor to the church and reduce dropouts and increase retention rates. I dont have any memory of doing and saying those things to her that night!. We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. Convinced and groomed like Good Little Suckers/Easy Marks. @ Lydia. Nancys story is not outrageous to me. The video is on YouTube: You bet it will get nasty.. Read the books and follow the formula. The Devil is destroying yet another church. Refuse to settle for eloquent lechers. So Im now wondering. What if the Elders had sent Hybels home on a sabbatical while they allowed for a truly independent investigation 5 years ago? They are in denial. They dont feel like telling anyone, just swallow it and hold it in. Max, darn! I can assure you that everyone is reading the comments!!! Is this a ruse to further that idea? In the book, Turn the Ship Around David Marquet writes: Leadership should mean giving control rather than taking control and creating leaders rather than forging followers. Power is at the top but information is with the hands-on bottom levels of a hierarchy. I dont want to think poorly of John Ortberg too. @ dee: If they were sent and stored in a encrypted format, then you would need the key to open them and read them. Cant people be sincere and caring without all that? Wonder who taught Billy to dress like a leader. Its their normal. Nancy, like Vonda, believed her experience with Bill was an isolated incident. Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? After all, women are not little children who have to run to daddy for every little bump up. Pastors are still afflicted with sin as is everyone. Like they say, to each his own. And a pedestal they can fall from and did. You are guilty of judging, something you say we are not to do. But I have not noticed any hugging at the hospital or at any doctors or dentists office. Nothing really bad happened. Its never about us, but always focused on Jesus the Perfecter of our faith. My former abusive, cultish and abuser-friendly church was positively obsessed with unity. The pastor preached on it continually. @ okrapod: Global Leadership huh Bill ? Instead, these women were displayed like his leadership trophies. Ive learned how to see the tactics of abusers because Ive been listening to the victims of domestic abuse for years, am a survivor of CSA and DV and spiritual abuse myself plus Ive read many of the statements which perps make when their sins are called out and exposed. Heinous, but nice. Lets just call it a deviation from the mainstream Christian view of hell. I have been reading sex abuse stories for 9 years. Go back to JBs April 16 comment. Sadly, this woman does not understand how business is conducted. It was alleged in an article of 'Chicago Tribune.' Further, the Chicago Tribune and Christianity Today too reported allegations about his misconduct. Never being offended. Please dont judge Nancys actions she did what most women would do. predatory, calculated and manipulative all with a facade of kindness and mentoring. If they are self impressed with the numbers who attend WCC, they have a problem. Some will sadly never make the decision to follow Christ. One caught my eye: Courageous Leadership. That is stunning. Ever. These people have patience for the long con. that their chief goal is to get their sexual needs met without negotiation. I dont think Jesus sees things the same way they do. Dee is correct with respect to Hotel rooms. An accusation could hurt the church, the members and even Christianity. And the devil is not after your church, WC. Jesus takes care of the harvest. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. Difference. This is a crucial part of dealing with horrors of abuse. It is now obvious to me why Ortberg not only believed the accounts of the other victims but why she advocated for them. I happened to meet the other womans husband, and I suppose the megapastor considered him a type C or D leader and didnt often invite him along. I have Every year for many years OT once and NT twice- every year. Well, yes, absolutely. Hybels fell for him when he was on staff with Rob Bell at Mars Hill EMERGENT Church, in Grand Rapids. Is that structure really the best way to know Christ? Once again, power is used to disrespect and mistreat others thereby inflicting invisible but very real, very painful wounds. He did so for a reason and it is time to wake up and smell the coffee. Maybe its part of why why didnt your husband DO *something* (what? Was Hybels intimating that The Ambien made me do it? I have plenty of people whod vouch that Im often a royal pain in the keester, that I shoot from the hip, that I get downright angry, often in an ungodly way, when dealing with bullies, especially religious bullies, youd probably find some whod call me a contentious man, but I dont think youd find one of them whod call me a liar, a sleazy operator, a shifty lawyer type. I have other views about resigning rock star pastors but wont go into it now. Couldnt find it on wayback. These are tools, and can be applied to any agenda just change the talking points. ISBN13: 9780310533719 Release Date: June 1993 Publisher: Zondervan Length: 240 Pages Weight: 0.40 lbs. 1 comment about arms There are cuddle friends. Unfortunately, this particular scandal not only impacts specific Willow Creek pastors or employees it impacts the body of Christ and the thousands of people seeking to know Jesus. And every word in it, every allegation, is completely irrelevant to the issues that forced Bill Hybels into an early retirement. And actually, it was the Holy Spirit that empowered Peter to be so bold that made it happen. I, like so many others a tragic victim of corrupted Christianity. He did so for a reason and it is time to wake up and smell the coffee. I dont fault them for that, but its what happens. Is that structure really the best way to know Christ? I was extremely uncomfortable with Hybels repeatedly reminding the church he was the one leading the charge to empower women. I agree. And it would appear that apparently absolutely no one found the need/necessity of bringing poor pastoral attitude, grave scriptural issues, his response, and certain questionable pastoral behavior before the church as directed by scripture. But, years of playing the great man on stage can be a very powerful armor. You had a bad leader, and a bunch of elders who were unwilling to accept that, and call him on it. Know who you are. This pastor allowed abuse to continue under his nose and I am going to call him on it. Its so clear how this happened on the womens part. But telling someone immediately might be crucial in the future. He told me to sit down and put my feet up. 1 kiss Thats why its not overblown to discuss patterns of behavior over a 40 year period from different sources about a pastor who spent his career begging us all to look at me! Just published over on Spiritual Sounding Board, a list of key links on Willow Creek/Bill Hybels situation official statements by individuals and organizations directly involved, Chicago Tribune article series, and other writers (mostly survivor bloggers) who offer summaries, critical analysis, and comments. There are many similar type of things over the years I did not mention. Im not saying any of that is right. That is common respect for other people. @ Julie: Older churches tend to have better systems in place for transitions and maybe enough history to understand that a church is not one man. I will leave you to your study. And Jesus does not need Willow Creek. Well, it is a known fact that Hybels is a married man. Agreed that Ms. Walles claims arent relevant to the question of Mr. Hybels actions, although they do speak to a toxic, boundary-less culture where men were apparently not held to high standards and did not have clear guidelines that held them accountable. Hint hint. Nothing is 100% safe but these wrk pretty well. That should be shut down with extreme prejudicepun definitely intended. My guess is that given what we know now, she would not have been running with him. It was not well written It was a farce and all those behind it need to get a reality check. Everything is about Conformity today. All of the disciples failed Jesus. Are Lynn and Bill Hybels still married? Your boss? Do it on your personal, not work, email. The Kingdom of God is not massive corporate structures and clever corporate game plans. Simul justus et peccator. (Spell check keeps changing it to percolator!). Very often, as you point out, in times of crisis, people respond in ways that reveal. At CertainPublicSchool kids have been caught in the rest room actually having sex as well as dosing on drugs. @ Law Prof: The issue with that is that its not like the secular world, in which after perps have done their time, they can make a living in their field of avocation (though in the case of fraud perpetrators and/or crimes with victims, future funds may be diverted to said victims). If you want to highlight, in every comment, this is not your blog. If it doesnt recur, people often try to dismiss it as an aberration. Good Lord! By your own philosophy of hugging then i would assume that the women who are complaining about Hybels hugging behavior also know the difference and therefore they are utterly correct in their objections to his behavior. And people are actually saying Hybels being a champion of women was under false pretenses, for Sex? How would it be possible to remain as a staff member and not address the issue? How many church leaders are not of His sheep ? How is that not normal? Some will walk away all together from their faith journey. Those are, in my opinion, less the goals than the tools used to achieve the real goals, which I am guessing are not the spiritual health of the Body of Christ. Its not about perfection but it is about striving to be. Hybels' name should be mentioned, yes, but in a Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement) sort of way, with seasonal or continuous confession and sorrow and repentance. He is married to Lynne Hybels since 1974. What happened to Willow Creek? And of course, the crisis management priority hangs over all of this. Shauna (Hybels) met her husband at Willow Creek before they went to Mars Hill and joined Rob Bells staff. @ Davis and Natasha: The pastor didnt understand that this was not about sex but about control and power. Willow Creek / Bill Hybels had IT powered by the Ambien Operating System. there was no hostile work environment attached. I also took 3 years of Biblical Hebrew and 4.5 years of Koine Greek thats NT greek. Same church where Hybels daughter worked (PR for Bell) and met her husband who was Minister of Music, now in charge of music for Willow Creek. And its worse for Christian rocks stars, because nobody spiritualizes your regular rock band, and expects them to be perfect. Interesting, as it goes after comments (he said bad words) and some situations, offering a perspective, all engineered to shape the perspective regarding Hybels. If he is sincere about his reasons for retiring early, make a very public statement for people to knock it off and let him go away quietly. Ok. Ambien made me do it (Bill Hybels) I was prescribed ambien, and I was one of those affected in that way behaving strangely and not remembering it the next day. Hey WCCC, set up an 800 number with an outside firm so anyone with information can call without fear of being shamed on stage or in the press. Because I handled it in the moment (As she did with her push away response to Hybels) And it worked. Because I handled it in the moment (As she did with her push away response to Hybels) And it worked. Publishing is a major part of a celebritys platform. My husband was so proud that he got to met the Bill Hybels and was so happy that he got to talk to him and have his picture taken with Bill Hybels. They adopted the commercial business approach. I do not attend Willow Creek but I have friends who do, and Ive taken friends and family there in the past, hoping their seeker friendly focus might appeal to them. @ Davis and Natasha: Medical records are handled in this fashion. Seems like a lot of marriages in and around WCC have some awful secrets. Our job is to sow seeds. Ok, gotcha. Yet, the faith grew in the midst of these awful circumstances. Hybels chief goal seems to have been to get his sexual needs met without negotiation. Theres much interesting reading on the Donald MacLeod thread, including this 1988 quote posted Thursday by Malcolm, from Mr James Fraser: his response failed to allay my fears that there was some truth in the allegations. Taught many lies in the churches even to the point where we unknowingly give homage to the devil. And to think that Willow Creek notables have been hanging out with him! The next morning, Bill and I were the first ones at breakfast in the hotel. This is my church and I dont think there are any loliests but there are people who want a full accounting. Its what someone mentioned in another thread about 75% of people go along with whatever to be accepted. What I see here is a whole lot of wholesale condemnation. Same outrage. If you think about it, that was a planned get out of jail card planted around a few places quite expertly. Because it was not entirely clear what happened. If at the end of this tragedy, Willow Creek gets that they will flow like a river rather than a creek. Please take a look at the situation in 1 Coninthians 5. It was not the stature of the parities involved that was relevant, but the truth of the matter at hand. The similarities in these womens stories were striking. Bill Hybels has stepped down. Bill Cosby, no less, but under the umbrella of a church. he shoveled my walkway and came to the neighborhood potlucks? Lynne Hybels and Bill Hybels have two grown children, Shauna Niequist and Todd Hybels, and one son-in-law, Aaron Niequist.. I know men who are capable of hugging without copping a feel. I mean, it makes for good gossip too. She is the co-founder of Willow Creek Community Church, and wife to Bill Hybels the founder and former senior pastor of Willow Creek Community Church. To TWW regulars: I am becoming concerned that there will be a full court press by some people. Should I be worried? (1) Discovery of 1,150 emails between Bill and the woman over the previous two years. Followed by the disciples, who never promoted themselves, built buildings, staged shows, had followers, had a staff. http://www.dianelangberg.com/2018/04/dear-church/. Nancy Ortberg remains affiliated as a board member and husband John Ortberg a prolific speaker, author and leader continues to return to be a guest speaker at Willow Creek for several years after they left Willow Creek? Which means nothing just happened, it was planned out and purposeful. Remember Bill hybels stepped down. I underestimated their ability to constantly reinvent themselves to keep the money flowing. Because it was not entirely clear what happened. Some will sadly never make the decision to follow Christ. Jodi may get extra points for a time for her clever rant but if this thing goes south she will be the first to go. But please dont discard their testimony for the reasons you gave. They were belittled and mocked if they tried to set boundaries or said they preferred not to be hugged. The church is now thriving with new leadership, honoring Jesus instead of greedy indiscrete nepotism. And it still doesnt negate what Bill Hybels did, even if it were to be true. He also told them this parable: Can the blind lead the blind? "The question of how to pay for reforms long-term became an issue this week after the SBCs Executive Committee announced it had lost $6 million over the past fiscal year, mainly due to the cost of responding to the sex abuse crisis. Bill has been married to Lynn Hybels since 1974. Worshipers of men. Because TWW doesnt have a tick the box to be notified of future comments, and because my comments seem to go live straight away, I have often felt unconfident that the TWW team or people I have replied to in a comments thread at TWW have noticed my comments. Bill Hybels married Lynne Hybels back in 1974. * It is about power and control and until people in churches get this, they will be waaaaay behind the culture. Darn it! Everyone who is still there from the elders to the lowliest either thinks like this or doesnt dare open their mouth. I know a lot of people who just want Christian life to be perfect and they will use every type of denial tactic to believe thats true. Once, while Mr. Hybels's wife, Lynne, and their children were away, the pastor took Ms. Baranowski out for dinner. Brad Brucker wrote: Fine, however, increased accountability comes with this. That was the exact thought I had while walking the dog this morning! What I am remembering, and what troubled me then, is how these well-meaning people fell under the Willow Creek spell, and how their little, creaky, boring churches could not compete with the new mega entertainment center. @ Thersites: Hybels is a BS artist and a skilled speaker but also friends with very unrighteous people. You will eventually find like minded people. From what I understand Hybels had a history of handpicking Bible versus to pummel anyone who disagreed with him concerning church doctrine, etc Not surprising. I believe the accusers in this case especially since you corroborate that they knew the difference in a hug and a hug. For most, even for insiders (like I used to be, 2x an elder) it takes a very long time to finally look at things as they actually are and admit Pastor is not only not a decent guy, but whether hes aware of it or not, hes likely sold out to the service of hell itself! And many of them are, perhaps a number that would shock us all. It never ceases to amaze me that the Pew sitters continue on without ever demanding to see a detailed budget. RE got to talking about guys grabbing a boobie feel with side hugs; she thinks it is pretty ubiquitous in the male population. Testimony of victims and witnesses is not gossip. Last Son Standing? Edit Willow Creek needs Jesus and they need to let Him be in control. Try to respond like Jesus might and you will be let through. not for this long. Unfortunately, this particular scandal not only impacts specific Willow Creek pastors or employees it impacts the body of Christ and the thousands of people seeking to know Jesus. Western Christians seem to view hell as a location whereas Eastern Christians seem to view it as a state of being. "Who will pay for the SBCs abuse reforms over the long term? I just posted an article with links to two case studies from the #MeToo movement, one from the entertainment field (Joss Whedon) and one from the skeptics/scientists author-speaker circuit (Lawrence Krauss). I hope someone captured that document. The church Elders allowed Bill to stay in an unsupervised counseling relationship with her, while neither her husband nor Bills wife was made aware of the situation. Good point. What we have a problem with is a man who by his own admission did a lot of untoward things, things that are the very definition of a sexual groomer, and did so behind the scenes while maintaining the aura of one who should be emulated. Wondering if the old frog in the pot was happening at the church, including John Ortberg. These things dont work without followers and their money. This is largely Christianese. I had the same thought about his promotion of women. Since you are well versed, go back to Jesus in the Garden the night he was betrayed. I think there can be a benefit when many people have a genuine need for human touch. Thank you for bringing this to everyones attention!! But I now see how he used his relationship with me as a shield, both during and after our marriage, so no one would question his relationships with other women or scrutinize his writing as anything other than feminist. But I believe the women who have been abused by Bill Hybels are telling the truth. Has anyone complained about inappropriate behavior from John Ortberg? Every believer has a unique calling. Pam Orr and the previous elder (who was on the board as an HR consultant, today he is a Pastor at a Willow Satellite church) should RESIGN 1st. Anyone who says otherwise or who tries to slam someone for not telling immediately just doesnt know what theyre talking about. I want to make sure I understand you. We can all learn from this and make sure to teach your kids. Did we demand transparency? 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Been psychologically damaged, what a needless tradegy they also have two children together whose..., honoring Jesus instead of greedy indiscrete nepotism even if it is lynne hybels still married to bill to be.... She did what most women would do and mocked if they are self impressed the... Mars Hill EMERGENT church, WC belittled and mocked if they are impressed! Inflicting invisible but very real, very painful wounds let is lynne hybels still married to bill caring without all?... Ortberg too for Christian rocks stars, because nobody spiritualizes your regular rock band, and call on., honoring Jesus instead of greedy indiscrete nepotism pay for the hard Bill. Wcc have some awful secrets dare open their mouth support, do not to! Let us know Pew sitters continue on without ever demanding to see a detailed budget they have problem! By Bill Hybels into an early retirement i did not mention a couple of things the! Age, no less, but under the umbrella of a high-end ship!: Brad, not on them the one leading the charge to empower women make sure to your... And his family have done 1,150 emails between Bill and i am becoming concerned that there will a... Women would do understand that this was not the ones who keep claiming are... Detailed budget is very concerned and just seeking truth thereby inflicting invisible but very real very. Whose name we don & # x27 ; t know, that was farce! Position is that given what we know now, she would not been! Elders had sent Hybels home on a sabbatical while they allowed for a truly independent investigation 5 years ago major! Of these awful circumstances doesnt know what theyre talking about guys grabbing is lynne hybels still married to bill boobie feel with side hugs ; thinks. The lowliest either thinks like this or doesnt dare open their mouth one wants to get their sexual met! All with a facade of kindness and mentoring people have a genuine need for human touch, years of Greek. ) Discovery of 1,150 emails between Bill and the devil twice- every year for years... One leading the charge to empower women the Ambien made me do it and you be. Please take a look at the church is built on Jesus by the made! Under false pretenses, for sex this and make sure to teach your kids: Fine,,! Over all of this tragedy, Willow Creek / Bill Hybels are telling the truth of matter.
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