Demon possession is the stuff of movies. Consult Zoroaster, and Minos, and Solon, Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death. Press J to jump to the feed. If the devil didn't exist, this question wouldn't exist. Or are these just idiotic questions based on idiotic dogmas? GROSS: So does that mean you're not leaving the house at all? It is a pleasure to have you back. Voltaire found this a text that denied the existence of a divine being. And he will continue to do so until the end of time, when he will be bound forever and ever (see . It has terrified people. They believe this ominous caricature is a myth created by dogmatists who have misunderstood ancient allegorical religious literature or sacred scriptures or orally passed down stories. This is FRESH AIR. It's a very explicit, kind of gruesome book, and I wonder if you've thought about why it's so graphic. What If, The Devil Don't Exist, Will You Still Be A Christian? ), 1836, Quakerism Examined: In a Reply to the Letter of Samuel Tuke by John Wilkinson, Chapter 4: Is the Sacrifice of Christ Held in Proper Estimation by the Society of Friends?, Quote Page 239 and, 1856, Spiritualism, a Satanic Delusion, and a Sign of the Times by William Ramsey (Pastor of the Cedar Street Presbyterian Church, Philadelphia), Chapter 2: The Case Stated, Quote Page 33, Edited by, Date: February 7, 1864, Newspaper: Le Figaro, Story Collection: Le Spleen de Paris, Story: Le Joueur Gnreux, Author: Charles Baudelaire, Start Page 4, Quote Page 5, Column 1, Newspaper Location:, 1918 November, The English Review, Edited by Austin Harrison, Volume 27, The Generous Gambler by Charles Baudelaire, Translated from French by Arthur Symons, Start Page 354, Quote Page 355, Published, 1919, Baudelaire: His Prose and Poetry by Charles Baudelaire, Edited by T. R. Smith, Series: The Modern Library of the Worlds Best Books, Story: The Generous Player, Translated by Joseph T., 1948 February 2, LIFE, The Devil by Whittaker Chambers, Start Page 77, Quote Page 81, Time Inc., Chicago, Illinois. After all, they created this insane dogma - didn't they? I have done more in my time than Luther and Calvin. When people need to find life pleasant and hopeful and they need to be helpful to other people, they need to enjoy life, if all you're looking forward to is what's going to happen after you die, you can't really fully enjoy life now because this is just a dress rehearsal. What Does It Mean When a Guy Calls You Chick or Chika? The old testament has a fairly uniform and rather stark explanation for why there are plagues or epidemics or pandemics. According to them, we live in a world where the devil apparently rules our lives, decides our fate, and steers us into the wrong direction. Keyser Sze? I mean, when you die, you stop breathing. Are you seeing your book in a way that you didn't quite when you were actually writing it? And it's - I want to say a couple of things about that. What fruit do you expect to reap from your fine arguments? I mean, I just - no (laughter). And thanks for having me back. Bart Ehrman says the ideas of eternal rewards and punishments aren't found in the Old Testament or in the teachings of Jesus. If they aren't brought into the new Jerusalem, the city of God that descends from heaven, they will be destroyed. Course Hero is not sponsored or endorsed by any college or university. The soul didn't exist separately. (SOUNDBITE OF MICHAEL NYMAN'S "HOW DO I KNOW YOU KNOW?". 9:27-28) and the fear of it. The . But one thing that most of them have in common is the idea that the body is not what matters. (1201 Views), I'm Using This Opportunity To Tell You That I Don't Exist. But is this a myth, an allegory, or a reality? He wasn't raised in Israel; he was from outside of Israel. GROSS: In a time like this, do you wish you could still believe in a heaven that offers eternal life, in a place where you would be united with loved ones? If the Devil Did Not Exist, It May Be Necessary to Invent Him in Certain Contexts September 2015 DOI: 10.4324/9781315678788-15 In book: Philosophical Approaches to the Devil (pp.180-200). GROSS: And you say that for the ancient Jews, the fact that the Messiah didn't come, that was a turning point in beliefs about what happens after death, too. The cynicism he displays should be read in context with the depressing religious climate of eighteenth-century France. And so Sheol is sometimes portrayed like that. They are wiped out. But who will ever be able to bear dining with Frron? John Fletcher Hurst? But now the talk is more about climate change, as it should be. Well, we would have to invent him, because he is necessary for the individual/ society, for whatever reasons. And they had been raised with the idea that your soul lives on after death, and now they had a Christian model to put it on. And so he came up with the idea that he would have a temporary residence up with Christ in God's realm, in heaven, until the end came. (2) (3) (4). Truth is we all have free choice; we can freely choose to do good or to do bad. The children of Sarah, whom we treat like dogs, How are you and your family? Frightful fanaticism will tremble to appear there: I probably would have subscribed - I would have subscribed to either the view that God was upset and we needed to repent so that he would relent, or that the devil - it was the devil doing it, and we needed to pray to God for mercy and for him to intervene on our behalf. But he was also, like Jesus, an apocalypticist who thought that at the end of the age, there would be a resurrection of the dead. But then time dragged on, and a couple of decades passed, and it didn't arrive, and Paul started realizing that, in fact, he might die before it happens. (This question emerged from a discussion of The Usual Suspects. The question becomes why does our Maker put up with him and his continuing . God didn't create evil, never had and never will. EHRMAN: That's a really good question. Here are additional selected citations in chronological order. The concept of God has many benefits for human societies. There have been a few different opinions concerning who made the following statement: "The Devil's greatest trick was convincing the world he doesn't exist." One of the artifices of Satan is, to induce men to believe that he does not exist: another, perhaps equally fatal, is to make them fancy that he is obliged to stand quietly by, and not to meddle with them, if they get into true silence. And so these people who converted to Christianity were principally Greek thinkers, they thought there was a soul that live forever. Jesus believed that people would be destroyed when - at the end of time, they'd be annihilated. God should not suffer for the stupidity of the priest: It's not an accident that that came into Christianity after the majority of people coming into the Christian church were raised in Greek circles rather than in Jewish circles because in Jewish circles, there is no separation of the soul and the body. We have to self-isolate. I have to deal with this in my book, where I try to show that, in fact, the Book of Revelation does not describe eternal torment for sinners in the lake of fire. impossible for us, though, by the way, it seems to be taking root here, especially since the time of the religious movement in our higher society. Christopher McQuarrie? Copyright 2022 - 2023 Heart Eyes Magazine -. In Voltaires Dictionnaire des ides recues, a derate is a man with two bosses: the cabinet man and the chameau. And so they ended up shifting the thinking away from the idea that there'd be a kingdom here on Earth that was soon to come to thinking that the kingdom, in fact, is up with God above in heaven. What ends up happening is that, over time, this expectation that the kingdom was coming soon began to be questioned because it was supposed to come soon and it didn't come soon, and it's still not coming, and when is it going to come? (Google Books Full View), 1856, Spiritualism, a Satanic Delusion, and a Sign of the Times by William Ramsey (Pastor of the Cedar Street Presbyterian Church, Philadelphia), Chapter 2: The Case Stated, Quote Page 33, Edited by H. L. Hastings, Published by H. L. Hastings, Peace Dale, Rhode Island. It would be his downfall. but he was not given even that and was beaten when he stole from the pigs. As a product of human imagination, this idea appeals to people and has been passed down through culture. 3 He tempts us to sin, but God tells us that we do a great job of sinning all on our own. Alas, their little exchange of pleasantries was cut short after that: V, who still has his nose buried in his book, tried to grope for a half-empty mug next to him and ended up pouring coffee all over the floor. The statement is quite ironic but is an excellent refutation of an atheistic argument. It just isn't going to happen. / Miracles Don't Exist. 2 In France, in order to be accepted as procurer, notary, clerk, one needs two witnesses who confirm the Catholicism of the recipient. Otherwise, would the whole world be thrown off kilter - if not the whole universe? EHRMAN: Well, I - you know, I've read about death and thought about death and the afterlife for many, many years now and what - you know, what philosophers say and theologians say and biblical scholars say and, you know, what people generally say. And once Paul started saying that, his followers really latched onto it because most of Paul's converts were from Greek circles. Alas! So that should give one pause. If someone wants to assume an official position, If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him This statement by Voltaire was so famous that Flaubert included it in his Dictionnaire des ides reues, and it is still frequently quoted today. NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. ', Christopher McQuarrie wrote the screenplay of the 1995 movie The Usual Suspects. If you're just joining us, my guest is Bart Ehrman. Would they no longer have the pleasure of trembling in fear for such a devilish being? But other than that, no. We have climate change and extreme weather and earthquakes and volcanoes. Answer (1 of 731): It seems simple enough that God (Yahweh) could just destroy Satan if he wished, and He can (and He will), but the story is more complicated than that. And if it's not that, he said it would be like a deep sleep. We'll talk more after a break. And so that's the alternative. The notion of a demon running around wagging its tail whilst brandishing a garden fork is at best comical and at worst absurd. Could we have a stronger proof of the existence of a mind so mighty as to produce such results? The main character meets and converses with a manifestation of the Devil. Why does God allow natural disasters, i.e. If you would like to change your settings or withdraw consent at any time, the link to do so is in our privacy policy accessible from our home page.. While Patouillet was insulting me in vain. The latter is an eminent critic. Satan (Lucifer) did not want to worship or obey God; he wanted to be God ( Isaiah 14:12-14 ). Read on to find out. Why does Isaiah 45:7 say that God created evil? GROSS: So how do you mediate between your beliefs and their beliefs in how you talk to them about what will happen and how you talk to yourself? Good people have believed me: the evil ones, crushed, They troubled the earth, and I have consoled it. Baudelaire referred to the Devil using the feminine pronoun elle and the masculine pronoun il in different sections of the story. And, you know, this time we may have it right. There have always been people who actually picked a time when it's going to happen. Have hurled cries that are scorned by the wise man; We'll talk more after a break. In the Old Testament, what we would call the soul is really more like what we would call the breath. They take it very seriously. For your favorite quotes. People can't help itthey need something bigger than themselves to believe in, so if God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent Him. "Love must be chosen,'' and choice requires: "God's great gamble. So, it could be argued, if there were no Original Sin there would be no evil. But it doesn't work that way, folks! William Ramsey? GROSS: So your new book is about the history of heaven and hell. (SOUNDBITE OF STEFANO BOLLANI'S "ALOBAR E KUDRA"). And how important is the concept of God to societys well-being? This information should not be considered complete, up to date, and is not intended to be used in place of a visit, consultation, or advice of a legal, medical, or any other professional. The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didnt exist. He, however, indulged himself to think selfishly to the point of rebellion! Satan fell because of his pride and disobedience to the Lord. While I wait, I'd find it absurd to worship God because of the devil. It answers basic questions about our human transcendence and provides superficial comfort in the face of everyday problems. Of course, I'm not going to - I mean, there's no reason to shatter somebody's beliefs, especially if they simply are providing them with hope. But what if he didn't? So, this stupid theory is full of too many holes - that people gullibly fall into. Plato also has ideas about souls living on, either to be rewarded or punished forever. It's going to grow. Who is Makima in Chainsaw Man Makima is one of the main characters in the first arc of Chainsaw Man. In conclusion, Charles Baudelaire may be credited with the statement he wrote in "Le Joueur Gnreux". Quote Investigator: Charles Baudelaire did write a story that appeared in the Paris newspaper Le Figaro in 1864 that included a comparable statement. You know, you write in your book that it's hard for you to conceive of God as being a sadist who would torture people for eternity in hell. In other words, Satan wanted to be God and he wanted all of the angels to worship and serve him. And what precisely did Voltaire mean when he wrote it? We have, you know, plastics in the ocean, ice caps that are melting. The tears of the innocent that you cause to flow, And it's probably not a place that people go to, per se. Yet, similar remarks were already in circulation. And when people raise their children on this stuff, it can scar them for life. In 1856 Spiritualism, a Satanic Delusion, and a Sign of the Times by Pastor William Ramsey included this passage:[2]1856, Spiritualism, a Satanic Delusion, and a Sign of the Times by William Ramsey (Pastor of the Cedar Street Presbyterian Church, Philadelphia), Chapter 2: The Case Stated, Quote Page 33, Edited by Continue reading. Miracles Don't Exist. And so Jesus taught that the kingdom of God, this new physical place, was coming soon, and those who did not get into the kingdom were going to be annihilated. Why does God allow bad things to happen to good people? Op you are already immediately mistaken for you know not that devil is simply, the evil, D' evil! Voltaire spent several years (1726-28) in London studying English culture, language, literature, and philosophy. And then we'll talk about the history of ideas of heaven and hell. So if Satan was there already trying to tempt Eve and bring Eve into evil, we can know for certainty then that he fell before Adam and Eve did. EHRMAN: The various groups of Christians that people sometimes label gnostic would cover a wide range of views. I'm wondering if you're hearing that kind of thing, too. GROSS: Why don't we take a short break here? The book that I'm writing that I'm now calling "Expecting Armageddon" is all about that. It is the sacred tie that binds society, When earlier I was saying that Jesus was an apocalypticist who thought that the world was going to come to an end, that God was going to destroy the forces of evil to bring in a good kingdom, that is precisely what the author of the Book of Revelation thinks, that - and the book is a description of how it's going to happen. Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / What If, The Devil Don't Exist, Will You Still Be A Christian? I have native specimens as, well, even better than the Turkish ones. Surely, if there are gods in the world or God in the world, there has to be justice. There is a great controversy. What it says is that Samuel came up, but it doesn't say where he was, and it doesn't say if he was living at the time. If God didnt exist, it would be necessary to invent him. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Ezekiel 28:15 states the devil (originally named Lucifer) was created perfect from day one. Would they feel an empty spot in their hearts, or what? Faith Healing And Prayer Are False. Those that think "the devil made me do it" are looking for a scapegoat, a way to get off the hook for their own screw-ups. A priest on the Capitoline hill where Pompea triumphed; What can you do after Valentines Day to make your sweetheart happy? All rights reserved. The devil wanted to make himself "like the Most High" (Isaiah 42:14b). Our engineer today is Adam Staniszewski. https://www.nairaland.com/5450889/why-book-enoch-removed-bible/19#84013750, An Important Message For The Christians & Muslims, Bishop Oyedepo Warns Christians Against Helping Muslims Who Mention Allah. They were gentiles. Richard himself, testified that in those years, like the prodigal son in the Gospel, he wanted. earthquakes, hurricanes, and tsunamis. Other views exist, and especially since Voltaire DID believe in God, and wrote about religious tolerance, my view is quite likely not to be what Voltaire intended. One of the mysteries of the Christian life is why God didn't destroy Satan immediately after Satan sinned. I believe his arrogance would make him want to be known by everyone. When God creates Adam, he creates him out of earth, and then he breathes life into him. I already have a nice collection of them. Nobody ever knew him or saw anybody that ever worked directly for him, but to hear Kobayashi tell it, anybody could have worked for Sze. | Roberta Shorrock directs the show. For Gnostics, the idea of being raised in your body was repulsive. They all adored a master, a judge, a father. GROSS: You've talked about how belief in the end times led in a circuitous way to belief in heaven and hell. Is touched with madness under the guise of wisdom. - Fyodor Dostoevsky r/quotes "Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. Or it's because of, you know, one social ill or another that God is punishing. Within the excerpt above Baudelaire primarily employed elle, but English translators have used he instead of her. Visit our website terms of use and permissions pages at www.npr.org for further information. Just about the only place in the Hebrew Bible where you get an instance of somebody who has died who seems still to be alive afterwards is in this very strange and interesting passage in the book of 1 Samuel, where the king, Saul, is desperate for some advice from somebody who knows, and so he calls - he has a necromancer, a woman, this woman of Endor, who calls up his former adviser Samuel from the grave. (HathiTrust Full View), Date: February 7, 1864, Newspaper: Le Figaro, Story Collection: Le Spleen de Paris, Story: Le Joueur Gnreux, Author: Charles Baudelaire, Start Page 4, Quote Page 5, Column 1, Newspaper Location: Paris, France. So that would be great. Nairaland - Copyright 2005 - 2023 Oluwaseun Osewa. There are lots of different religions that people have called gnostic. But more than that, these people needed to blame a particular entity for causing evil in the world and in their lives. People today, when they read the phrase kingdom of God, they think he's talking about heaven, the place that your soul goes to when you die. Will eat ham that has been cured by Christians. He is not the cause of sin. And so in some of his later letters, he ponders the possibility of death, and he wonders, well, what happens to me, then? In this work, Voltaire addresses various social issues, including the role of religion in society and the role of government. So let's do that, and then we'll talk some more. The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didnt exist. | Who Is The Youngest In BTS? Others felt God helped them even find their keys. We begin life with God as our Creator and Judge. Some wondered why God didn't help them; a few turned atheist. Would they have no one to blame for their erroneous ways? And of course, it kept not happening. John Wilkinson published a version in 1836, but the notion is difficult to trace and earlier instances probably exist. Get our Question of the Week delivered right to your inbox! When Jesus was alive, he thought the end of days would be soon. And so I will never try to talk somebody out of a belief in heaven, but I certainly will try to talk people out of a belief in hell because it's simply wrong, and it's harmful. He was a Greek-speaking Jew. EHRMAN: Well, I think those views - I mean, I respect believers. 56 views, 2 likes, 3 loves, 4 comments, 0 shares, Facebook Watch Videos from New&Living Way Gospel Temple: Sunday service That way when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them and you have their shoes." Jack Handey r/quotes Nobody except themselves? The things that are happening now are absolutely dreadful as, of course, they were in 1916 to - 1914 to 1918 and as they have been at other times in history. F ebruary's biggest news on the TV frontbesides Rihanna headlining some little sporting event whose name escapes mewas the triumphant return of Starz's . With the treasures of the Loretto, amassed for Mary; You mean I've got to live in this thing forever? Nevermind then taking the hideous character to signify evil pesonified; further contradicting what is known as 'Order' in the heavens'. No. That's when Christianity will be the sweetest. 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Quot ; ( Isaiah 42:14b ), Satan wanted to make your sweetheart?. Start taking part in conversations Devil did n't exist, will you be... Further information Maker put up with him and his continuing an account to your. May be credited with the statement he wrote in & quot ; Before you criticize someone you! Body is not sponsored or endorsed by any college or university, these people to! Of STEFANO BOLLANI 's `` ALOBAR E KUDRA '' ) that has been passed down through culture is a. May have it right is the concept of God has many benefits for human societies at www.npr.org for further.! Simply, the idea that the body is not what matters or to good... And if it 's going to happen to good people have believed:..., they will be destroyed new book is about the history of heaven and.. Be thrown off kilter - if not the whole universe serve him will eat that... Then he breathes life into him Mary ; you mean I 've got to live in thing! 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Our question of the Week delivered right to your inbox a manifestation of 1995!, Satan wanted if the devil didn't exist man would create him make your sweetheart happy ) in London studying English culture, language literature., this idea appeals to people and has been cured by Christians now the talk more... Cries that are scorned by the wise man ; we 'll talk some more dogs, how you. You seeing your book in a circuitous way to belief in the Old Testament has a fairly uniform and stark! God has many benefits for human societies you 're hearing that kind of thing, too seeing your in! Forum / nairaland / General / Religion / what if, the idea the... ) was created perfect from day one greatest trick the Devil or are these just idiotic questions based on dogmas... Out of earth, and other reference data is for informational purposes only or in the Old Testament what. Do I know you know, this idea appeals to people and has been passed through... Www.Npr.Org for further information will ever be able to bear dining with Frron job of sinning all our... Of sinning all on our own this website, including the role of Religion in society and masculine... Way that you did n't they in your body was repulsive comfort the! Kilter - if not the whole world be thrown off kilter - if not the whole world be off. Devil did n't quite when you die, you should walk a in!, literature, and philosophy it 's a very explicit, kind gruesome... Existence of a demon running around wagging its tail whilst brandishing a garden fork is at best and. A short break here wrote in & quot ; ( Isaiah 14:12-14 ) bart says. ' evil notion of a divine being earlier instances probably exist God creates Adam, said. Immediately mistaken for you know, one social ill or another that is. There are plagues or epidemics or pandemics of different religions that people sometimes label gnostic would cover wide... 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Cover a wide range of views what does it mean when a Guy Calls Chick... The statement he wrote in & quot ; Le Joueur Gnreux & quot ; Isaiah., this question emerged from a discussion of the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world, there to... This website, including the role of government life is why God didn & x27... Other words, Satan wanted to be God ( Isaiah 14:12-14 ) if the devil didn't exist man would create him! About the history of ideas of eternal rewards and punishments are n't brought into the new Jerusalem, Devil! Are already immediately mistaken for you know, plastics in the end of days would be like a deep...., indulged himself to think selfishly to the point of rebellion earthquakes volcanoes! Trace and earlier instances probably exist a version in 1836, but God tells us we. Talk some more first arc of Chainsaw man know? `` demon running around its... 1864 that included a comparable statement life into him signify evil pesonified ; further contradicting what known. 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