Ed. I think its just all out there. Her first husband, Ted Berrigan, was an equally charismatic figure among an influential group of downtown poets. Can we talk a little bit about the pop culture that figures in your work? Alice Notley was born in Bisbee, Arizona in 1945 and grew up in Needles, California in the Mojave Desert. Notley has said that her decision to place the refrain at the beginning of the stanza rather than the end is what allowed her to continue writing the poem. The others were like me, though Hispanic and black. In her essay The Poetics of Disobedience, Notley writes, I've been trying to train myself for thirty or forty years not to believe anything anyone tells me. In this apocalyptic, darkly funny, and, indeed, gutsy poem from Songs and Stories of the Ghouls (2011), Notley indicts logic itselfthe so-called common sense that reduces poetry to gender and experience to the known and erases whole cities in the whirlwind of war. MYLES, Eileen. DR: Right, thats a strong, colonizing streak in Western culture. Where Leftover Misery Goes. Chain 7, Memoir/Antimemoir; Summer 2000, p. 147-151. Culture of One sees Notley returning to the desert of her childhood to tell the story of one of its residents. Eileen was in it, as was Bob Holman. Her first husband, Ted Berrigan, was an equally charismatic figure among an influential group of downtown poets. For the Ride is a difficult book, constructed largely of long, discursive lines reminiscent of a Beckett monologue, testing the selfs capacity to hold together: one is not, ones are not, separated. For me, Williams mostly writes by the word. I wonder about it later, but actually it always seems like it is justified: I think the people that I mentioned in. New York: Scarlet Editions, 1992. That unusual, horizontal format was probably done to fit the long lines in. One is making them, conscious. 55DR: There was a pop song in the 1960s by the Three Dog Night, Joy to the World, which went: If I was the King of the World, Id throw away all the cars, thus broadcasting the idea. I'm calling out from pictures to your vision creating it. DR: Historically, painting is central to cultural New York and to New York poetry. Notley wrote extensively about pregnancy, childbirth, and child-rearing at a time when the poetry world was often inhospitable to women. For instance this collage that you put on the cover of. There werent a lot of cacti where I lived, but there were a lot of bushes. , and she taught me the song later, and my father taught me the chant for the Apache Dog Dance. Notley was born on November 8, 1945 in Bisbee, Arizona and grew up in Needles, California. Thats why my poetry works so well. Blinding the White Horse in Front of Me in. Nadja, in uvres compltes, tome 1. New York: Penguin, 2007. She distrusts change. 52I do write down my dreams, though I havent been dreaming much lately; but Ive been doing that for years. Benjamin Voigt grew up on a small farm in upstate New York. After the war, that tradition was exhausted. 26DR: In her Paris Review interview (2015) she says that she learned from John Ashbery never to complete a thought, which is a rich idea. 102I re-read Wars I have Seen (1945) a couple of years ago because she was being bashed in the States again: they were underlining her Vichy connections in order to make her into a kind of villain, without any regard for how difficult it must have been: a lesbian living with another lesbian, in her sixties, in a country that wasnt her own country, Jewish, thus a prime candidate for the camps. ASHBERY, John. The Art of Poetry: John Ashbery. Ed. 4. My current process is to write in the morning. . I made this in about 2005. A close relationship with the poet Anselm Hollo, who was teaching at the program at that time, led to Notley leaving Iowa City for Morocco in 1968. For three or four years my father danced the Hopi snake dance with a live snake in his mouth. One of her main currents of experimentation has revolved around the search for a feminine epic, one that could serve as an alternative to the male stories that have dominated the history of poetry since Homer. SoundCloud and Notley has remained in Paris but makes several trips to the United States each year to give readings and teach small workshops. [16] Over two nights, November 14 and 15, 2016, Notley read The Descent of Alette in its entirety at The Lab in San Francisco. Her search culminated in The Descent of Alette (1992), a book-length poem that tells the story of a woman questing through a sinister subway underworld. Ive mostly dredged it all up, and I know how to get to it without dreaming. DR: To go on with my list: We are secretly holding the ghost dance, take care of the pines where we sleep, I have the Antlers she., (2011), from the lady with antlers; that was strange: I fell asleep, dreamed of being a woman with antlers, then when I woke up I opened. Her honors and awards include an Arts and Letters Award from the American Academy of Arts and Letters and the Shelley Memorial Award from the Poetry Society of America. 33DR: I think for the reader those part-words can function to foreground an elsewhere. And Virgil: Arma virumque cano, Troiae qui primus ab orisItaliam, fato profugus, Laviniaque venit: Thats the opening of the Aeneid and the opening of the Iliad is: , . Ive always had trouble getting materials here. [Alice Notley] -- "Considered by many to be among the most outstanding of living American poets, Alice Notley has amassed a body of work that includes intimate lyrics, experimental diaries, traditional genres, the . I always liked his paintings. Everyone who went there was either black or Hispanic. Those are the ones Im working on right now, which have to do with my poetry of the moment. In March 2021, Notley was a guest blogger forHarriet. But Notley, never one to be pinned down, has continued to push poetrys formal constraints, and this pursuit has led her far away from portraits of domestic life. Doug [Oliver] had died, and it was 2001. Actually, when I read The Descent of Alette, high-school students get similarly entranced. 1976 saw Notley and Berrigan moving their family permanently to New York City's Lower East Side, where they'd live together until Berrigan's death in 1983. Notleys language is, as ever, mystifying: in lines fluid yet clipped, interior yet discursive, she turns the idea of independence inside out to discover its seams. They were the CDs that my son made and sent me; there are a lot of miss-hearings of Bob Dylan songs, as well as just a lot of folk songs that I already knew, in that work. The two worked on two magazines together, Gare du Nord and Scarlet, and self-published a compendium of their own books, The Scarlet Cabinet, which contained Notley's Descent of Alette. 122DR: Anne Waldman was an important figure with the [St. Marks] poetry project. November 2014. NOTLEY, Alice and Ted BERRIGAN, editors. Notley was born in Arizona and grew up in Needles, California. Its refreshing to read poetry so dedicated to its own ends, even if they are occasionally inscrutable. That particular poem is in your selected poems, in Grave of Light (2006), and it was presented upright on the page, but it was published in a review called Chain (2000) and in the Best American Poetry series (2001) where it was horizontal on the page. ASHBERY, John. [17], Encyclopedia of the New York School Poets. That unusual, horizontal format was probably done to fit the long lines in. However, I dont know what I was listening to when I was beginning to write. He taught some writing: one writing class, and one civilization and literature class. New York: W.W. Norton & Company, 1979, p. 911-1772. NOTLEY, Alice. But every time he quoted somebody he misquoted him or her without even knowing it, so he always made the texture his own. The circle of younger poets who spent time with Notley and Berrigan included the aforementioned members of the Yellow Press team, Barbara Barg, Rochelle Kraut, Rose Lesniak, Bob Rosenthal, Steve Levine, Simon Schuchat, Tim Milk, and several others. Dismiss. As in her feminist epic The Descent of Alette, the quotation marks here both interrupt and sustain. . Notley edited seven of the issues with Berrigan taking over one while Notley was pregnant with their first son. Middletown, CT: Wesleyan University Press, 2006. The Desert Music and Other Poems. It also marks a shift in Notleys poetics away from the freewheeling chattiness of the New York School and toward something more visionary, historical, and grandly narrative. must start and will now by an awkward process make something, thinking Alice Notley (born 8 November 1945) is an American poet. Baby (1979). Was she of an Irish sort? The Art of Poetry No. The poem is addressed, at least in part, to Berrigan, who died in 1983, and the speaker longs to make sense of a country without him in it. DR: Well I think of Williams as a kind of Calder mobile waiting to enter into movement. That's the future, babe. First, the way the fan that tapers at the top disorients the view, because the fan is supposed to open up, not reduce. The editors discuss Amy Newman's "Howl," Alice Notley's "This Fire," and a series of limericks by Anthony Madrid. I actually feel bad when I dont write, like yesterday, but I always have something going on. 25AN: Yes, and she hasnt changed much. Why poetry is necessary and sought after during crises. Kenneth Koch Selected Poems. New York: American Poets Project Library of America, 2004. Notley's work stands as a testament to how difficult it is to be truly individual. Vocabulaire politique et propagande dans une perspective transatlantique, Slavery on Screen / American Women Writers Abroad: 1849-1976, (Hi)stories of American Women: Writings and Re-writings / Call and Answer: Dialoguing the American West in France, Morphing Bodies: Strategies of Embodiment in Contemporary US Cultural Practices, Modernist Revolutions: American Poetry and the Paradigm of the New, The Poetics and Politics of Antiquity in the Long Nineteenth-Century / Exploiting Exploitation Cinema, The Voting Rights Act at 50 / Hidden in Plain Sight: Deep Time and American Literature, Aesthetics of Theory in the Modern Era and Beyond / Photographie documentaire, Revisiting the Gilded Age / Littrature et philosophie, Cartographies de l'Amrique/ Histoires d'esclaves, Le roman policier, littrature transatlantique / Maisons Hantes, Sport et socit / Animals and the American Imagination, Senses of the South / Rfrendums populaires, The Businessman as Artist / New American Voices, A digital resources portal for the humanities and social sciences, https://doi.org/10.4000/transatlantica.13862, http://journals.openedition.org/transatlantica/docannexe/image/13862/img-1.jpg, http://journals.openedition.org/transatlantica/docannexe/image/13862/img-2.jpg, http://journals.openedition.org/transatlantica/docannexe/image/13862/img-3.png, http://journals.openedition.org/transatlantica/docannexe/image/13862/img-4.png, http://journals.openedition.org/transatlantica/docannexe/image/13862/img-5.jpg, http://journals.openedition.org/transatlantica/docannexe/image/13862/img-6.jpg, http://journals.openedition.org/transatlantica/docannexe/image/13862/img-7.jpg, http://journals.openedition.org/transatlantica/docannexe/image/13862/img-8.jpg, Catalogue of 609 journals. There are passing moments that neednt be dwelled upon, but if youre going to go to war against a couple of countries, I think you merit an accusation of doing just that. Courtesy of the artist, re-photographed by Daesong Kim, April 2018. Death is for a moment, beauty is for all time, about World War II and people being away at the war. 75DR: Speaking of Anne Waldman somehow makes me think of the presence of Native Americans in your work. damn whether they eat or not. In fact, the strong memories of starting points, including the vegetation, you just evoked link you to your New York School entourage. Shes made few changes to her approach to the work. But he also gave us a new way to think about nature itself. I quoted from Songs for the Unborn Second Baby (1979). Lipstick, Queens, 1947 these were things he just wrote down on this list of possible titles. Can we talk a little bit about the pop culture that figures in your work? I knew him in New York, where I saw him from time to time; but after I moved here, he sought me out. My name is ending refused Notleys persistent nonconformismone of her most difficult works is called Disobedienceinsists that further possibilities exist. Notley is often categorized as a poet of the second generation of the New York School, along with writers such as Eileen Myles and Anne Waldman. 59DR: With your interpolation of popular culture into epic poetry, I would expect you to be a household name here in France. 45DR: Its also what Andr Breton mentions, in his book, Nadja (1963): staying at the Htel des Grands Hommes with his surrealist friends, who wont get into the Panthon either. interview (2015) she says that she learned from John Ashbery never to complete a thought, which is a rich idea. AN: Yes, towards the end of number fourteen, the last one. Those are the ones Im working on right now, which have to do with my poetry of the moment. Alice Notley: That's the future. Indeed, French poetry has had some weird times, where it got so abstract. Its not around me much now. At that stage, Allen Ginsberg, a really fine person, was extremely supportive. Indeed, you are often spoken about as an engaged poet, like your late husband, Doug Oliver. You and Ted published it in your review, Chicago (1974). This independence is radical in a climate in which poets, searching for success, can feel pressured to build a brand, create a strong social-media presence, and write books with conceits that can be summarized in a sentence or two. Theyre beautiful. Bernadette Mayer writes through the pandemic. Notley gave birth to her and Berrigan's second child, Edmund Berrigan, at Colchester Hospital in 1974. 4Since then, her poetry has continued to flow and evolve. The Circus (1971). I havent changed much since I first began writing: Chicago: C Press, 1971. hard and deeply about each part as I go along. Theres a poem where you talk about meeting Teds mother. The designer of the cover made an extract basically, making it wrap around the book cover, which was an attractive idea. His reviews and interviews have appeared in Kenyon Review, The Rumpus, and Pleiades. 49DR: In that book, the heroine is a true medium who can look at someones face and know things, and at the end she is taken off to the asylum; Andr Breton then rails for two pages about how misguided asylums are, which makes your collage seem to be broaching the question of clairvoyance in terms of surrealistic, poetic culture. 69AN: I learned a lot from him on that level. AN: We were all doing them. xx. . Aeneas founded a city, Rome. 2Although she is a Parisian now, Alice Notley was also a key figure on the Lower Manhattan poetry scene particularly of the late 1970s and the 1980s. Its filthy; I dont remember how I got that torn princess; but that bird was in a book; you see that phrase there marks what I was barred from: so the thing to see is that Im in jail and they wont let me into the Htel des Grands Hommes. Which is the Panthon. In 2015, she was awarded the Ruth Lilly Poetry Prize. Alice Notley has become one of America's greatest living poets. Sign up for the Books & Fiction newsletter. AN: He was a good friend. If not, boo hoo. Its from Homer. Her children, Anselm Berrigan and Edmond Berrigan are both New York Poets of a younger generation. Revue dtudes amricaines. Her poems have also been compared to Gertrude Stein, as well as her contemporary Bernadette Mayer. You know that quotation from a Paris Review interview (1983) that everything is this underground river and you can just draw from it any time you want to. My poem The Prophet (1981) is based on his poem Some General Instructions (1971). My collages actually reflect the situation of overabundance. ALICE NOTLEY has published more than twenty collections of poems. KOCH, Kenneth. Alice Notley on her life with Ted Berrigan. 12DR: Thats what Ted Berrigan was about: taking things from here and there, picking them up, and making them his own. 38AN: Would you like to see the real collage? Theyre beautiful. It was Alice Notley who would be in the spring session in 2007. The first workshop that I taught was a crucial one for that generation actually. I was influenced by Koch, particularly by the period starting with the second The Circus (1971). DR: There are some lines from your poems, wrought like those in Stein, that one could carry in ones head all day and it would color that day; for example, that thinks but not only on words is one; all thats left of the old world are beautiful voices, is another that might change ones day. Since I had all these poems without titles, I just randomly assigned Rons titles to the poems that ended up in. Active in the New York poetry scene of the 1960s and 70s, Notley is often identified with the Second Generation New York School poets, though her work resists any period classification. Its from Homer. Particularly the middle one. Ive written so much in my life that Ive become able to control it all; and when it feels like Im letting go, Im not. Whether it's an object or a person, the over-accentuation of gender in relation to form allows for the. DR: It seems to be an inspired collage. (1979), in talking about Marianne Moore, they say: Pound writes with the phrase, Williams writes with the line, H.D writes with the image, Wallace Stevens and Gertrude Stein write with the word, but Marianne Moore writes with the entire stanza, and I was just wondering if there was a unit that you use? You have a poem called Cherokee (2006). I could have a conversation about Royal Trux: a very chaotic indie group, sometimes awful, sometimes amazingly brilliant. When I was becoming a poet, folk music was popular; Bob Dylan was getting started; and he was that kind of magpie. Her children, Anselm Berrigan and Edmond Berrigan are both New York Poets of a younger generation. I felt I knew what the cry house was, and had ideas about it: I knew how to use regional things. She has received the Griffin Poetry Prize, the Los Angeles Times Book Award for poetry, and an Academy Award from the American Academy of Arts and Letters. Peggy went to work at two jobs for ever; then there was a point where Johnny, the youngest, had to leave home, and she had a nervous breakdown, which was when I met her. DR: Its a beautiful indictment of bureaucracies and their inhuman treatment. When I was becoming a poet, folk music was popular; Bob Dylan was getting started; and he was that kind of magpie. [8] While in England, Notley would write her second sonnet cycle Great Interiors, Wines and Spirits of the World, which was originally published in a Notley-themed issue of the Chicago magazine Out There.[9]. 114AN: To quote Jack Kerouac, avoid the authorities. If you have the talent you have to avoid them. AN: I dont remember that poem, Syringa, but John tends to pick things out: he used to keep lists of his titles and then he would decide to write the poem of that title. I have some Cherokee Blood, perhaps one-sixteenth Cherokee. 70DR: Was the teaching of poetry workshops something that connected you to Kenneth Koch? As for my teaching at the Saint Marks poetry project, I gave assignments from week to week and I made the students bring in those rather than the poems they wrote on their own, to hold discussion without my having to criticize them too much. Her honors also include an Academy Award in Literature from the American Academy of Arts and Letters and the Shelley Memorial Award from the Poetry Society of America. Better to think of the poem as what Notley calls a bricolage, with hints of medieval allegory, jokey slang, strange jags of French. of Marie de France. Need a transcript of this episode? New York: Random House, 1954. 57, no. It so happens that there are many of those trees, syringas, in Rochester, NY, where hes from. New York: Unimproved Editions, 1986. Through polyvocal poems, vast epic sequences, and world-building vision, Alice Notley 's work for decades has broken through to new possibilities of genre, lyric, contact, and time. Ron Padgett. Death, grief, and spirituality were terrain that the fast talk of New York School poetics hadnt fully engaged; so, too, was the political and feminist consciousness growing in Notleys work. 95For me, Williams mostly writes by the word. Miles Davis live at Birdland or something. Philip Gourevitch. Anne Waldman says that one thing she learned at that point was that the Hindus say carry your enemy on your shoulder. Thats a counter-intuitive idea. She lives in Paris. The character One is a kind of joke (Notley has always had an oddball sense of humor), but a joke that underscores the flimsiness of a stable idea of the self. AN: It was definitely weird to get food stamps. By Alice Notley. The text is visually striking with quotation marks surrounding each poetic foot, intended to slow the reader down and indicate the pace at which the book is to be read. Entitled The Speak Angel Series, her latest collection of new material is forthcoming from . [12] Her own book, entitled Parts of a Wedding, was published first in a small edition by Unimproved Editions then later as a section of the O Books anthology O One.[13]. DR: Did you like doing it? Now there are all these plaques in my neighborhood saying: Here 300 French school children were sent to the camps. I woke up one day. DR: Such natural presences are important. Grin, laugh unbecomingLiving at the bottom of the water mayhave been obvious all the time. which went: If I was the King of the World, Id throw away all the cars, thus broadcasting the idea. Then he writes poetry in the variable foot which is a huge influence on my later work. DYLAN, Bob, The Man in the Old Black Coat. Oh Mercy. Ron Padgett. McKinley. She was married the British poet Douglas Oliver until his death in 2000. I had just been in the States. deserve to be there, having their names engraved in that particular way. AN: Yes, they were the two Irish of the set. The couple returned to Chicago for a brief period of time after their year in England before moving to New York City in 1976. [citation needed]. If we compare them with painting, they work like the zips in Newmans painting. In this interview, she mentions other New York Poets (John Ashbery, James Schuyler, Frank OHara, Kenneth Koch, Ron Padgett, Eileen Myles, Anne Waldman, Joe Brainard, Allan Ginsberg, and Bernadette Mayer). 68DR: Your humor, in poems like The Prophet (which asks hilariously, Does a hippopotamus get the shakes?) is slightly less well known than your readiness to tackle political subjects. Which gives you bits of advice and instructions. Wars I have Seen. Poems, articles, podcasts, and blog posts that explore womens history and womens rights. Where Leftover Misery Goes. Robert Haas, Guest Editor, The Best American Poetry of 2001. 2023 Cond Nast. Photographer unknown, Alice Notley teaching a workshop, Saint Marks Poetry Project, c.1980, courtesy of the Alice Notley, re-photographed by Daesong Kim. NOTLEY, Alice. 97AN: He is focusing on the foot; and hes probably also aware of the foot when hes doing the short stanzas. Her mother was Polish and her father Irish. Teds father worked for the Tip-Top Bread factory and died when he was fifty of a heart attack, after being laid off due to mechanization. She received a B.A. In 1972, Berrigan and Notley married and moved to Chicago, where they lived until 1976. Notley borrows images and inspirations from popular cultural (Muhammed Ali and Marlon Brando in 30thBirthday and comic books in The Ten Best Issues of Comic Books), as well as the more serious literary world. I think I know how to do things with my voice that are entirely musical. Although Notley is less known to a casual poetry readershipher inventiveness and audacity are matched by her difficulty she is one of the singular voices in contemporary American poetry. Its small and a bit fragile. Alice Notley, Passeurs de la littrature des tats-Unis en France(1)/ Lhritage de Michel Foucault aux tats-Unis, City Ruins in American War Narratives/ Womens Sites of Struggles for Self-Determination. 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